Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: 4th factioning and alt chars: VOTE

4th factioning and alt chars: VOTE 4 years 9 months ago #16653

  • zooba
  • zooba's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Member
  • Posts: 795
  • Thank you received: 502
Fatal summed my viewpoint up in his essay.

4th factioning and having alts is not quite the same though is it?

4th factioning as I understand it implies switching faction to the overpopulated side during alerts with intent to be on the winning side. This is lame and should be "forbidden" or discouraged rather.

Having alts...what Fatal said. Just don't grief MACS members...or any other players for that :)
Unofficially entered hypercasual activitystate
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: pieterv

4th factioning and alt chars: VOTE 4 years 9 months ago #16654

  • JackHerrer
  • JackHerrer 's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Officer
  • smokers gonna smoke
  • Posts: 1421
  • Thank you received: 761
Thank you for stating the obvious ThunderS.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Thunderstrom

4th factioning and alt chars: VOTE 4 years 9 months ago #16663

  • Sanria
  • Sanria's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Officer
  • Posts: 33
  • Thank you received: 22
Since a lot of people are just saying "What Fataljay said", I feel I should attempt some level of rebuttal to that.

As I said in my original post, the community for the MACS extends above any single faction (or game for that matter). When you work against our people, you make it harder and more frustrating for those of us who actually care about completing an objective. In essence, you are objectively making our gametime WORSE by fighting against us.

As for the argument of "There's no metagame, so there's no harm"... Frankly, that's a non-issue. The issue here isn't 'will we permanently harm Ceres NC', it's "We've got people who don't like being trolled/targeted by our own members, what reasonable compromises can we make to keep them happy". I'd say the options put forth by Mephisto are a fairly reasonable compromise to allow alting without allowing MACS to attack each other openly on Ceres.

As for the argument of 'it's just a game'... Some people take their recreation seriously and get annoyed or outright upset when it's disrupted for no particularly good reason. Once that annoyance sets in, the gametime is pretty much wrecked. I'd hope our members would have enough respect for each other to take reasonable steps to not annoy each other.

As for the argument of "They should just be more mature"... Not everyone enjoys the same kind of "I don't give a shit" gameplay that some of our members have. Those people who take it a bit more seriously are not being immature, they simply enjoy having consistent allies and completing their objectives, because even if the victories are transient they give a thrill, and having our own people work against us and make getting that thrill harder busts our morale right in the teeth.

To the point of "I want to play an alt"... One of the posted suggestions is to play on another server if you want to go TR/VS. This removes the problem of making MACS objectives harder from the equation. If you want to spar with people from the outfit, have them alt onto the other server too or have your duels in the test server... there's plenty of other places that are easily accessible that give you that opportunity, and most of the times I've seen the sparring going on in TS, the people are announcing "I'm at this base, come get me"... that's a perfect scenario to take to the test server.

What I don't like seeing is people alting to troll other MACS members because it can honestly ruin their gaming and once it's ruined it's difficult to get back into the enjoyable mood that was lost. What's laid out seems to be a reasonable compromise that allows people to still alt, still have fun on VS/TR chars, and NOT end up attacking our own. If you just want to attack our own, then take it to the test server so you both can have a good ol' fashioned duel.

When you work against your own members, you are only setting the outfit up for splits and bad blood, and I just don't see the point in risking that at all when there's simple, easy options that prevent that.
Last Edit: 4 years 9 months ago by Sanria. Reason: Fleshed out my thoughts a bit.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lightbrigade, Smithay, bosbos, Tiiliskivi

4th factioning and alt chars: VOTE 4 years 9 months ago #16664

  • KIZZZZ
  • KIZZZZ's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Member
  • Posts: 83
  • Thank you received: 55
Sanria if someone is playing a different faction they are a fair kill unless they are listening in on TS or while a op is in action they are "NOT working against MACS" they are playing a game maybe if they are hunting them.

Why does it matter at the end of the day we are all adults (well most) so why cant we all just grow and see the point in which this i a computer game that we play for fun and to be honest i play for no other reason to have fun and if that mean play with all aspects of the game so be it if needs be i will play my VS on a different TS server since ceres is my "Home" in planetside and sorry but im more dedicated to ceres within planetside.

And about the point of ceres each and every server has its own feel and ceres is suppose to be the layed back chilled server so why do we even need to consider stopping playing other factions i can honestly say no other outfit would give a dam that people play on alts like i said before its a computer game not real life maybe if it had a link to IRL i could understand but it doesn't so please just please grow up every one and just be mature about this.
Last Edit: 4 years 9 months ago by KIZZZZ.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

4th factioning and alt chars: VOTE 4 years 9 months ago #16665

  • Sanria
  • Sanria's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Officer
  • Posts: 33
  • Thank you received: 22
Kizz, you are basically saying "Their opinion doesn't matter because I don't understand it and I don't think it's a good one". Why they don't like being killed by other MACS doesn't matter. What matters is that they don't like it, and if there's easy, reasonable steps that we can take we should take those steps.

So far I've yet to see a significant argument of WHY it's necessary to be going onto alts ON CERES, other than "I wanna kill the MACS guys cause it's fun". Well that RUINS fun for a good number of them, and you don't seem to have the slightest respect for that.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

4th factioning and alt chars: VOTE 4 years 9 months ago #16666

  • DamCir
  • DamCir's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Gold Boarder
  • Posts: 168
  • Thank you received: 91
Honestly as for me I am the kind of person Sanria described as:
As for the argument of "They should just be more mature"... Not everyone enjoys the same kind of "I don't give a shit" gameplay that some of our members have. Those people who take it a bit more seriously are not being immature, they simply enjoy having consistent allies and completing their objectives, because even if the victories are transient they give a thrill, and having our own people work against us and make getting that thrill harder busts our morale right in the teeth.

BUT there lies my problem. When I get killed multiple times by some of the high level (pro) enemies I tend to memorize their names and hate their guts. Like literally borderline of hate. So when I find them in our TS or talk to them in tell messages and realize they are not bad people and are actually nice I can't hate them, literally and physically I can't make myself hate them, so the next time they kill me my reaction is "Meh...". On this note I would like to thank Torok for stopping me twice when I raged in the yell chat against KingKennedy, Darkelfdruid and fqqRTx. I even apologized to Darkelf and fqqRTx when they were smack talking in yell and tell messages (I did it too) to me for my irrational behaviour and was pleasantly surprised when they both gave me a nice and dignified answers and apologies for their behaviour. fqqRTx even said I was the first person that ever apologized to him and congratulated me for this. Basically now even if I get killed by them I can't get myself to rage or hate (just "meh...").

Sorry for dragging this out, but the point is I don't really mind getting killed by MACS members on their alts as long as it's some casual fighting. What would bother me is if there is some major outfit operations and they would rather play against us rather than with us.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lightbrigade, Gribbstar, FatalJay, Sinisterfister

4th factioning and alt chars: VOTE 4 years 9 months ago #16667

  • Krups
  • Krups's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Member
  • Posts: 9
  • Thank you received: 12
Ever fought tooth and nail for a base, against superior numbers, giving everything not to be pushed out, and then - air strike, explosions, and when the smoke clears and you stare at the death screen, ready to go 'oh well, at least we tried', you realized that the final blow was delivered by an all too familiar name wearing the wrong colors.

Sure, that also happens a lot while they are still wearing blue. But it's really not just about getting killed. See, being far away from any platoon/squad waypoints is bad, but obviously, being on the enemy team is far worse. When you need help, your outfit should be the first place you can look for support. But when you not only cannot rely on your outfit mates to suport you, but on the contrary have to live with them making your life extra difficult, as far as I'm concerned that's seriously f'ed up.

And sure, it's just a game, I could probably just go 'oh well, sucky outfit plagued by half-assed wannabes, but it has a couple of really nice dudes too', and live with it. But then I'm not a regular leader. I can only imagine the 'fun' of herding half filled squads with lots of randoms over the map only to realize that some of your own outfit, instead of supporting you, would rather help thwart your efforts. Those that actually do step up to do the work for us that noone else is willing to do deserve better than that.

And sorry, but ...

KIZZZZ wrote:
...
Why does it matter at the end of the day we are all adults (well most) so why cant we all just grow and see the point ...

Well, kid, when you, some day, in the far future, will have grown up enough that it's safe to consider you an adult, you will hopefully be able to understand that disagreeing with your opinion does not automatically imply immaturity. Using 'grow up' and 'be mature' as a casual insult in discussions however ...
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lightbrigade, bosbos, HIGHCommanderJack

4th factioning and alt chars: VOTE 4 years 9 months ago #16668

  • FatalJay
  • FatalJay's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Member
  • Rant is as Rant does
  • Posts: 494
  • Thank you received: 312
In an attempt to keep this topic from falling into an argument instead of a discussion I just want to nip this in the butt right now.

I believe the comments of "grow up" and "be mature" was more a reference to getting mad at someone for killing you in game, not referring to people having a different opinion on this matter, and I don't think it is entirely unfair to say myself. I'm guilty of this perhaps more than anyone, and I have been doing it ever since the age of 5, and the fact I do it vexes me terribly. My family never could understand how I could be so mild mannered and laid back in regular life, and get so venomous and hateful over computer games.

In fact, if you remember, I almost quit the outfit on a number of occasions because I was ashamed of my constant raging. Somehow people manage put up with me, and even talked me out of quitting every time I tried.

I posted my opinions earlier in this thread and I feel they cover them to a fairly accurate degree without the need for much more to be said. Part of that does explain why I feel getting killed by a fellow MACS member shouldn't create a rift in players, but I won't go into it cause I don't want to be the guy who tried to override his opinion by stating it over and over.



I would humbly ask however that this is supposed to be an intellectual debate between friends here folks. We are here to voice our opinions, and most importantly understand others. Please do not start digging your fingers and having your pounds of flesh. We are all part of the same team after all.

Cheers


HA! I'm fuckin' outta here! Slaterz dudes! :D
Last Edit: 4 years 9 months ago by FatalJay.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lightbrigade

4th factioning and alt chars: VOTE 4 years 9 months ago #16670

  • LilMoses
  • LilMoses's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Member
  • You create your own reality Leave mine to me
  • Posts: 1579
  • Thank you received: 325
If my special lover could explain why strict rules would kill an outfit it'd be highly appreciated. Otherwise we might try.
404 Not found
The administrator has disabled public write access.

4th factioning and alt chars: VOTE 4 years 9 months ago #16671

  • Thunderstrom
  • Thunderstrom's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Member
  • Wasn't this an awesome idea Creagle?!
  • Posts: 508
  • Thank you received: 371
LilMoses wrote:
If my special lover could explain why strict rules would kill an outfit it'd be highly appreciated. Otherwise we might try.

I sure can. And to be fair, it wouldn't kill "an outfit" but its likely it would kill this outfit. The reason being that there is a lot of people, do mind great players and good comrades who signed up for an outfit without super strict rules. So when you all of the sudden make a 180 turn to strict rules from what seems to be a nice thriving outfit and community, you will start a shitstorm out of proportions with people leaving and people being kicked. I'm having a hard time seeing how that would benefit macs as a force to be recon with on Ceres.

And while we are on the note of being serious and strict regarding rules. You attended multiple Outfit ops back in the days, that had a requirement of voicecoms without being able to speak yourself? Should we have kicked you from the outfit then? Remember, strict goes both ways.

Anyways, this old sod will now crawl back in tho the hole he came from :P

Edit:

Since Planetside still don't have any sort of competitive mode, no pro series, no organised fights that matters for more than E-penis size and no metagame, why treat it like a game that everyone in the outfit can make a living of? It's not an e-sport game, so to ask people to take it super serious and strict without there being any actual stakes is good in what way? You can't pull out the whip without there being a carrot somewhere as well.
Last Edit: 4 years 9 months ago by Thunderstrom.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: MrPokealot, pieterv

4th factioning and alt chars: VOTE 4 years 9 months ago #16674

  • HIGHCommanderJack
  • HIGHCommanderJack's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Member
  • I enjoy freedom
  • Posts: 2825
  • Thank you received: 760
Lilmoses:
&
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
Last Edit: 4 years 9 months ago by HIGHCommanderJack.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lightbrigade

4th factioning and alt chars: VOTE 4 years 9 months ago #16675

  • LilMoses
  • LilMoses's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Member
  • You create your own reality Leave mine to me
  • Posts: 1579
  • Thank you received: 325
I agree that there are some risks, but there are also chances.
And not changing anything is a risk, too.
My impression here when I joined was a 100% dedication to NC...nowadays it seems a lot play here and there on VS and TR...
Oh, and just because I switched my mic off I'm still have the ability to chat.
404 Not found
Last Edit: 4 years 9 months ago by LilMoses.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: bosbos

4th factioning and alt chars: VOTE 4 years 9 months ago #16676

  • HIGHCommanderJack
  • HIGHCommanderJack's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Member
  • I enjoy freedom
  • Posts: 2825
  • Thank you received: 760
LilMoses wrote:
I agree that there are some risks, but there are also chances.
And not changing anything is a risk, too.
My impression here when I joined was a 100% dedication to NC...nowadays it seems a lot play here and there on VS and TR...

For what I've seen its mostly the BR100's wanting a change at boring times. "a lot". like a handful of people come on its not like half of the MACS doing this

Let me put it this way;

Your girlfriend getting mad because you wanted to eat out in a restaurant/grill/burger place.

#1 its not everyday/everytime

#2 you just wanted a bit of variety

#3 it wont break your relationship or your bank

I'd understand the strictness lilmoses you are suggesting, if that would have beeen the deal from the start. What if the outfit would suddenly go full on TR? And require you to delete your NC accounts? See what I did there? Made you think for a sec HELL NO I AM NOT OBEYING THESE RULES. Changing rules on the fly by a large factor can and will result in a catastrophe.
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
Last Edit: 4 years 9 months ago by HIGHCommanderJack.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: MrPokealot, Thunderstrom

4th factioning and alt chars: VOTE 4 years 9 months ago #16677

  • Thunderstrom
  • Thunderstrom's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Member
  • Wasn't this an awesome idea Creagle?!
  • Posts: 508
  • Thank you received: 371
LilMoses wrote:
I agree that there are some risks, but there are also chances.
And not changing anything is a risk, too.
My impression here when I joined was a 100% dedication to NC...nowadays it seems a lot play here and there on VS and TR...

Please specify the your so called chances then. And how they outweigh the risks?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

4th factioning and alt chars: VOTE 4 years 9 months ago #16678

  • Shafrak
  • Shafrak's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Member
  • Posts: 37
  • Thank you received: 14
Many valid points and arguments in both camps.

Being NC (the freedom faction) I find it kind of sad when people wanna act like TR. ;) Instead, keep on being the best and funniest outfit and our player base will most likely not wanna do anything else except Mooing and Yoloing. :)

The key to success can not be achieved by denying the right to freedom.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: OLOL6

4th factioning and alt chars: VOTE 4 years 9 months ago #16680

  • MrPokealot
  • MrPokealot's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Officer
  • Posts: 732
  • Thank you received: 154
Well you guys have heard my stance on the matter more than once. It goes without saying, I fully support having alts on Ceres, and it should be the player's choice, not the outfits.

Otherwise they'll simply have to leave the outfit. There's no way in hell people with alts will delete their chars.

Isn't that what we as an outfit should be worried about? Losing valuable team players?

or is it simply losing? Because it bothers me if you're worried about losing in Planetside 2.

Don't force these people to stop playing their alts. Not only is it not going to work, it's going to divide the outfit for no better reason than "you're playing against us".

We don't REALLY have anything to lose and there is nobody from the macs hunting us down besides Xentors(who has left on his own). So I don't see any sort of division coming from the players who use alts unless you can provide us concrete evidence that this is a problem. Your worries are hypothetical unless you can prove otherwise.
Last Edit: 4 years 9 months ago by MrPokealot.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

4th factioning and alt chars: VOTE 4 years 9 months ago #16681

  • LilMoses
  • LilMoses's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Member
  • You create your own reality Leave mine to me
  • Posts: 1579
  • Thank you received: 325
Please specify the your so called chances then. And how they outweigh the risks?
To just give one chance: The outfit will be more attrative for players that are dedicated to NC, so it'd help to keep players in the outfit as well as to attract new players.
No risk no fun, and in the long run it'll be better if we have these rules in place, or at least everybody should know that such rules might come on day: I hope SOE will bring a metagame with continent capture.
404 Not found
Last Edit: 4 years 9 months ago by LilMoses.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

4th factioning and alt chars: VOTE 4 years 9 months ago #16683

  • Sanguycarpe
  • Sanguycarpe's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Officer
  • That French guy
  • Posts: 1168
  • Thank you received: 976
I don't want to write a big message to explain my thoughts on this matter, I could but I don't think it's necessary, so I'll make a short resume :

- A few months back, I was completely against because I had the feeling it was a "treason" towards the NC and the Maniacs. I don't anymore. As it has been pointed out by several people, there's no end to the game, so alts don't prevent us from the fun and from victories, and it gives people who needs a change of air an occasion to do it. Of course they could do it on another servers, but... After more than a year of gameplay, I've come to the realization like DamCir said that our enemies are not necessarily douchbags, and can be nice guys. And I've been talking and have several TR and Vanu in my friend list, and if I wanted to play an alt, I would chose to do it on Ceres to play with them instead of against them.

- I won't do it because I'm too loyal to the NC, and I don't want to start something from scratches, too much risk to lose precious time :lol: But I understand why people would want to create one


So now that my point of view has been briefly exposed, I have two questions :
- Why this policy right now, when NC is rolling on everything most of the time, and while we were talking a few weeks ago to create an alternative Maniacs force to balance the pop problem ? What was the trigger for this policy ? Sorry if I didn't ask during the officers meeting on Tuesday but to be honest I was really tired and the discussion went through me, sorry :(
- How many people are concerned by this ? I can only think about some players, less than 5 so it was not such a big deal to me

I have the feeling I missed something :unsure:
The administrator has disabled public write access.

4th factioning and alt chars: VOTE 4 years 9 months ago #16684

  • Gribbstar
  • Gribbstar's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Second-in-Command
  • Posts: 979
  • Thank you received: 1197
Ive done some thinking and now I'm going to do what I do best and be really direct here, because when all is said and done this is truly what matters:

Who is going to quit the outfit if we don't allow alts on Ceres?

Who is going to quit the outfit if we do allow alts on Ceres?

Answer honestly because in my eyes anyone who wants to break friendships over a bit of competition probably isn't someone that matters a whole lot. Are we really that petty?
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: MrPokealot

4th factioning and alt chars: VOTE 4 years 9 months ago #16685

  • Thunderstrom
  • Thunderstrom's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Member
  • Wasn't this an awesome idea Creagle?!
  • Posts: 508
  • Thank you received: 371
LilMoses wrote:
Please specify the your so called chances then. And how they outweigh the risks?
To just give one chance: The outfit will be more attrative for players that are dedicated to NC, so it'd help to keep players in the outfit as well as to attract new players.
No risk no fun, and in the long run it'll be better if we have these rules in place, or at least everybody should know that such rules might come on day: I hope SOE will bring a metagame with continent capture.

So to clarify, you think its a good idea to risk a large playerbase leaving based on the assumption that it will make MACS more attractive (which most likely will scare off more applicants than it will bring)

And you want to take this risk for fun, because you apparently are bored?

"and in the long run it'll be better if we have these rules in place" What is this divine wisdom based on?

This isn't my first rodeo, I've seen guilds and community's fall before, as I am sure many else here have to. This type of reasoning is not healthy in my personal opinion and it rang my alarm bells hard enough to wake me up out of my "3 months without posting on this forum "- coma.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: elbifo
Time to create page: 0.200 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum